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Episode 18: What the role of HR should really be, according to HR professionals

Word of the day

  • Satiates - said 5:23 ✅


  • 0:00 Intro
  • 2:53 Our own research on what the role of HR should be
  • 5:38 What has been the traditional role of HR teams?
  • 7:12 HR’s role goes far beyond the job description
  • 12:19 Companies either get it or they don’t
  • 17:01 The average length of time a company remains in the Fortune 500
  • 18:56 The importance of understanding what and who people are
  • 22:42 As companies grow, the bad things get worse
  • 24:04 Our networks are growing at a rate larger than our capacity for relationship
  • 27:23 Empathy is not an unlimited resource
  • 30:35 Culture(s) at a large company


Jordan (00:05):

How many hours and years of our lives do we spend on work? For nearly all of us, we spend 30 plus years and one third of our days in our vocation, more time perhaps, than we spend at rest or at play. But this isn't a problem. Why? Because work is good. Work needs to be integrated deeply into our lives and must be in line with our most important goals and values. And if it is, we have a far more complete and fulfilling life experience. Welcome to the How People Work podcast, where we explore the intersection of how humans think and act and how they apply themselves to their work. When you understand both of these things, you'll be equipped to be insightful, compassionate, and compelling leaders. All right. Welcome back to How People Work. This is one co-host, Jordan Peace. Across from me is your co-host, Jason Murray. Hey everyone. We're back for episode - I don't even know anymore - 17?

Jason (01:02):

17? 18?

Jordan (01:04):

17? 18?

Jason (01:04):

Somewhere in that -

Jordan (01:05):

We're getting up there.

Jason (01:06):

Ballpark. Yeah. About to graduate.

Jordan (01:08):

About to graduate. Exactly. Thanks for listening today. So we've walked you through some Harvard Business Review articles. We've walked you through some studies that Jason, as I'd like to say has nerded out on, shared with me, and then we've discussed and then shared with you. But today we're actually going to discuss some of our own research, our own survey and data, and some data analysis that we've done internally here at Fringe. And Jason led this project. And so I'd love to kick it to him and have him explain why we did this in the first place and who we surveyed and why. And then we'll get into what we gleaned and what we're doing about it.

Jason (01:47):

Yeah. Well, and shout out to Kip Hart who works here at Fringe and has collaborated with me and he's on the People team at Fringe, technically, but sort of freelances around a little bit in a lot of ways and is super valuable and a great people person.

Jordan (02:05):

Every team try trying to get a piece of him.

Jason (02:06):

Everyone's trying to get a piece of Kip. So, yeah. Well, I guess a little bit of the backstory there is my role within Fringe changed at the beginning of this year, near the beginning of this year where I'd previously been building out the Frowth function, which was sales and marketing and so on and so forth. And that was really my role for the better part of three or four years here at Fringe. And one of the things that we felt was really imperative to our success as a company was, Hey, we've got to continue iterating on what we're building for our audience in the marketplace.

Jordan (02:42):

Because we're designing something to meet the needs of people and the needs of people are changing and evolving over time as new generations and new themes socially. So it just makes sense.

Jason (02:53):

And what Fringe was at the beginning, that's still a very core part of what we are, but I think our, as we've become more knowledgeable about the space just from being in the space, I think we've developed a deeper point of view around what's needed in this arena as it relates to employee experience and what HR teams are trying to do and what is even the purpose of HR and some of those kinds of things. And so as I was moving into this new role, I felt like, well, I've got a lot of opinions on stuff, but let's try and ground ourselves in reality and let's maybe try and validate some of those opinions and really dig in. And so what we put together was a survey with a third party. So we tried to do this as scientifically as possible and got over 500 different HR respondents that participated in this survey that we did where we gave them a series of 10 different questions to self-assess everything from their own perception of their role, metrics that are critical, their engagement with executives and leadership within their organization, needs of the business versus needs of the employees, so on and so forth.


And then we paired that with a couple dozen interviews that we did of actual HR leaders. And so almost all of those were people who work at or for companies that are not customers of Fringe. And so we tried to do this as objectively as possible and not just get people who are already huge fans of what we do or knew what Fringe was to begin with. We talked to a lot of folks that didn't have any idea what Fringe was or maybe had a little bit, but weren't customers of Fringe and were able to glean some really useful insights and information from them.

Jordan (04:41):

Yeah, that's cool. I mean, the last time we approached the market like this was before we started the company and it wasn't even as extensive as this. Cause we didn't have the time nor the money to do this level of research at the time. But I feel like that's the last time that we took a really super objective, scientific, let other people fully speak and not try to influence kind of point of view and it’s super interesting just to see the difference between 2018 and now and what people are thinking about.

Jason (05:14):

So it was great. I mean, you know me and I love doing that kind of stuff. Yeah, course. Cause I get to nerd out on all of that.

Jordan (05:22):

It really satiates a part of your heart then.

Jason (05:25):

It does. Yeah. That's great. Way to work that in there. And so -

Jordan (05:30):

I'm just going to get it in early from now so don't have to worry about it anymore.

Jason (05:34):

Yeah, because the last one, you just slipped it in right at the end there.

Jordan (05:36):

Oh man. Yeah.

Jason (05:38):

So I think the way to start with this one, it might seem a little bit trivial to our audience. Oh yeah, duh. Everyone talks about this, but I think we've got some nuance here that we'll unpack. So the question I want to start with is really just what's been the traditional role of HR teams? So I think there's people listening that are in HR roles themselves, and then there's people listening who are just people leaders, maybe not from an HR specific function. And so I think it's helpful to just level set on the historical context here a little bit. And I know you've got some perspective on that as well.

Jordan (06:16):

I'm trying to think of what show I was watching the other day where this popped up. Oh, it's this goofy show on Apple TV, I think it is, around a tech company that has created a video game. It's like a World of Warcraft type of thing. Mythic Quests is the name of the show and the game. And there's an HR person in the show, but people treat her, she's a counselor of some kind. And so they come in, they lay on the couch and they're just like, yeah, it's been a really tough week. So and so did this and said the other thing, whatever. And then the next person walks in the door and like, Oh, I'm sorry. Are you in a session? I'll come back later. So she calls a meeting and she's like, all right, we're here to all understand what my job is because clearly none of you do. And then I just cracked up. Cause it was just so -

Jason (07:12):

Not a therapist.

Jordan (07:12):

We've, we've had to, we've gotten to, I should say, commiserate with and hear from so many HR leaders over the years of just, here's what my job is, here's what it was stated to be, here's what it turned into. And I'm doing these 47 things that were not in the job description. And then these are all the assumptions that people think my job is. And those are all incorrect.

Jason (07:34):

Wildly inaccurate.

Jordan (07:35):

Wildly inaccurate.

Jason (07:38):

The Office probably didn't help with any of this either.

Jordan (07:40):

Toby, no Toby, poor Toby. Yeah. That's the person we chose to represent the profession on The Office. That was not a good move.

Jason (07:49):

Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know. I don't want to upset anyone, but ironically there, there's always truth in something that's funny or a kernel of truth in something that's funny.

Jordan (07:59):

It’s got to be, otherwise it's not funny.

Jason (08:00):

And so I think what the kernel of truth was, well, it was largely conventionally a very administrative and compliance related role. And so that was kind of the knock that Michael always had on Toby was he was spoiling all the fun. Yes. But that has traditionally been the role of HR in a lot of companies and a valuable role. I'd say one that I probably underappreciated until Fringe grew to a size that some of those things became necessary. And then we had somebody come in, right, Cassandra, who you all probably heard on the previous episodes that we've had and put in place some things that we needed around compliance and legal things and stuff. It's probably the proper term, right? Legal things.

Jordan (08:45):

Legal Things.

Jason (08:45):

And stuff.

Jordan (08:46):

That's it. Yeah. And stuff. Yeah. You can't forget the stuff. No, no. It is, I mean, that is a truth of the job. And I think that that is what gets the attention. It's essentially, I think you had too many generations of leaders that saw this role as, Hey, your job is to make sure we don't get sued and to make sure people don't get hurt. And if they do get hurt that everyone knows that it's not our fault and whatever. Pay people do these things and they're vital aspects of the company and the company does not run without it. Right. But I even heard as recently as this week, somebody described HR as a pure cost center, and I was just like, do you still believe that?

Jason (09:29):

Yeah, so backwards?

Jordan (09:30):

You really still believe that this is just a cost center just because they administrate the payroll in some cases? No, that is not the case. You understand? And I could go just preach on this, but -

Jason (09:44):

Let's do it.

Jordan (09:44):

I think people just don't understand how much impact there is to someone that's very carefully crafting the experience of what it's like to be an employee at any given company. They just don't get it. That you're going to attract way better people that are 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 times more effective than the more average folks. You're going to attract people that are really bought in, they're going to stay longer, they're going to recruit their friends. They're going to evangelize your company to everybody that they know. So they become clients and customers and users, et cetera. It, it's huge. And then you create an environment, we've talked about this, an environment where people can thrive and they can be happy should they so choose to be happy because that's not the responsibility of the employer fully.


Everyone gets to experience those 8, 9, 10 hours a day, whatever it is that they work because of the experience set up by HR folks. And sure, executive leadership has something to do with that. Everybody has a responsibility to create culture and maintain culture, but the tone is set by the people that are sort of the guardians of the mission, the vision, the values, the who do we recruit, who do we keep? How do we pay 'em and compensate 'em and benefit them? And what do we bring in to add to and enhance the experience? That is so important. And still, like I said, it's just too many generations of people thinking one thing, that it's just taking ages for people to understand the difference.

Jason (11:25):

Yeah, well, and I think, man, that goes back to one of our first episodes where we talked about native analogs and native digitals and that whole paradigm. And I think one of the things that you've got going on is, I mean, somebody who would say such a thing, I would put almost all of my money on betting that they are a native analog.

Jordan (11:45):

Yep. This person definitely was.

Jason (11:47):

Right. So I mean, there's just a way that they see the world that is fundamentally different than how a new generation is coming in and perceives the world. And I think we could probably say that we believe there is actually a right way in some of this to see it. And that was actually something that came out of the research that we did. So we're, we're going to jump around through all this, and you guys listening, don't necessarily have the report fully read out in front of me. We haven't published this thing, we haven't published it, so this is just all fresh.

Jordan (12:18):

Here. We need to publish this thing.

Jason (12:19):

But one of the subheadings that I've got in here is that companies either get it or they don't. And that was kind of a clear takeaway, is like I've always had some sense maybe overly optimistic that, you know, can try and pull companies along or you can try and convince people that there's a better way to go about it. And I think what I've seen both in my own experience in what we've done with Fringe and then in surveying and talking to all of these people leaders, is that there's just companies that get it, what you were just talking about, or they don't. Period.

Jordan (12:56):

So to use a very southern colloquialism, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Jason (13:02):

Yeah. You've told me other ones too that are, I mean, I feel like people might know that one. Yeah. But there was one recently you brought up that was about tomato farmers and the field and something I was like, man, that one's really obscure.

Jordan (13:15):

That is out there. I don't remember. I wish I could recall at the moment.

Jason (13:18):

I'm not from the south.

Jordan (13:19):

Sometimes they just have to come to me in the moment. Otherwise I always know they’re part of my kind of nomen or vernacular until it comes out very deep-rooted and then I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot about that phrase. But you know what I mean? And we've done this, we've convinced companies, we've just strong armed 'em, for lack of a better expression, to do what we think is right. And it flopped. Because they didn't actually believe it. They didn't actually get it to use your word. And it's that lipstick.

Jason (13:53):

So one of the things we found, and I think this makes a ton of sense, but it's worth stating because obviously there's a lot of companies out there that don't get it still that, and if the CEO and executives at an organization value culture, that's going to grease the skids for so many of the initiatives that HR ultimately needs to help. And so at companies where culture is not a priority, conversely there can be just a significant tension surrounding how programs get rolled out, how people data is used, even how you think about ROI or I should say how people data is even misused. And so I heard about, this was so shocking to me, and one of the interviews that we did, a woman who is previously Head of Benefits at a large manufacturing company with about 4,000 employees.

Jordan (14:47):

I was worried you were going to name - say the name for a second. I'm not going to say names. Stop. Jason.

Jason (14:49):

We're not going to name names. No. But this was so wild. So it was known from their data that a particular warehouse was the culprit of some bad turnover and bad engagement data from surveys that they had done and retention rates and so forth. And when they looked at it in isolation, so when they actually segmented the data as you should, if you're really trying to get to the root of what a problem is and what's going on, it was clear that there was a need to address matters at the level of that warehouse. But then what this HR leader told me is that when presentations to the executive team were done, that they only shared averages that smoothed the data and it hid the real problem because people on the HR team knew that executives wouldn't be receptive to that data or they would errantly blame people on the HR team for what was going on. And so that's going on inside of companies is that that was obviously a company that doesn't get it. And so therefore people are in their jobs, they're trying to protect themselves, right? They don't want to share bad news because bad news might reflect back on them. Or there's executives that are not going to understand or accept or -

Jordan (16:11):

Or not even care to understand or seek to understand.

Jason (16:14):

Or I would say in that case, this is probably just a truth universally about leadership is like, well, the person to blame is the leader. If you got a problem, you got to own that. And so that's right. Maybe you didn't directly contribute to why somebody left that particular warehouse, but it's your responsibility as a leader and executive of that company to company towards it, to move towards it. So this topic too, I think is an interesting one about companies because I think there's just a really sort of philosophical bottom line kind of thing that wittles those companies out. And I know something that you've talked about a lot in the past is what we'll see in five to 10 years. The companies that get it are the ones that are going to be around. And actually something that I think is really fascinating in that regard, and that we may have talked about this before, is the average length of time that a Fortune 500 company remains in the Fortune 500.

Jordan (17:23):

We did. I've forgotten the stat. Do you recall? Yeah. No, I really don't.

Jason (17:26):

But yeah, it's stunning to me. 20 years.

Jordan (17:28):

20 years.

Jason (17:30):

So the companies that are enduring are the ones that we remember, but then the whole rest of it, it's just a revolving door. And I think that speaks to the fact that building an enduring company, one is just really difficult to begin with. There's a whole lot of things that go on in the world that just make it hard to build a company and sustain over a long period of time.

Jordan (17:50):

You get good at one thing and the world doesn't need that thing anymore, and you just become irrelevant.

Jason (17:55):

But I think one of the most difficult things is, when I think about it, I'm like, well, yeah, you could sustain a company over 20 years by brute force. Yeah. I mean, we're four years, four and a half years into Fringe now. Yeah. Five. So you're like, you think about that and you're like, well, we're 25% of the way into 20 years. And could you imagine forcing it for another 10 or 15? Possibly. I mean, it wouldn't be enjoyable.

Jordan (18:24):

It would be miserable. But because I could imagine how that would be done.

Jason (18:27):

Yeah. You could do it. Right. And so I think that speaks to the fact though, that companies, how companies approach their business strategy, the treatment of people within their organization, that's going to flow out of a philosophical point of view. What do you believe about people, right? Yeah. And is it important to do things and treat them in some way as a stakeholder within the organization? Or are they just resources?

Jordan (18:56):

Well, I mean, let's be honest, that's why we're doing this podcast. You kind of summed up our secret motivation for doing this podcast in the first place is that we're trying to help peopl, leaders understand what and who people are, right? That they're not actually just resources. They're actually very, very, very complex creatures that have to be grown in specific ways, encouraged in specific ways, a certain environment. We talked about plants in the last episode that you just, it's just water and light. It's like that you have to create a very complicated greenhouse to grow people. It is not easy. And so the more you understand about what people are and what they're like, and how they think and what makes them tick, and why they get out of bed in the morning and why they might stay at a company or come to a company, et cetera, et cetera, the better you can do and the more you can go from, yeah, I think I get it. I care about people to a place of, I care about people, and I'm really knowledgeable about how to lead them. So it's just funny. I hear you say that, and I'm like, yeah, that's why we're sitting here.

Jason (20:07):

Yeah. Well, and that I don't binary kind of paradigms. And so I think there's this sense that, well, those things are inherently at odds, and that that's sort of the conventional thinking. It's like, well, I'm going to invest in people, but it means that I am sinking money into something that ultimately doesn't drive a sort of exponentially bigger pie, if you will. And I think that's just a ridiculous sort of presupposition. And that goes to that philosophical point of view. It's like, do we believe we're playing a zero sum game where there's limited resources and we're just trying to carve 'em all up as shrewdly possible amongst this sort of ever-increasing pool, like employees and shareholders and investors and our customers and all this stuff. And we just got to be as strategic as possible.

Jordan (21:04):

Just build a spreadsheet, right?

Jason (21:06):

Or as we've said before, is there a path forward? One in which human flourishing is the convergence of the unique needs that individuals have employees within your organization to live satisfying and fulfilling lives and the business to grow and accomplish its mission in the world. And I think we've been continuously,

Jordan (21:29):

Which in turn, almost regardless of what the mission is of a particular company, it probably exists to serve the human race in some capacity.

Jordan (21:39):

So it's not just the employees and the investors and the executives, but it is the customers. It is. Or the users, to use a tech word, everybody around and inside that company that flourishes if you do it right.

Jason (21:54):

Yeah. Well, and I think that's hard. I mean, it's probably worth maybe playing the devil's advocate a little bit here. Well, I, I'll kind of put the question to you is when companies get big, don't bad things start to happen. So if you think about larger companies, that's where a lot of the negative press tends to be. And it might be because they're more public, it's more obvious. But I would say it's sort of as an operating principle, the larger things get, the more likely there is to be corruption, a dehumanizing aspect to it. It's like it's harder to manage things when they get bigger.

Jordan (22:42):

I think the bad things get worse. So from day one, bad things happen. You remember there, there's five founders in our company. Yeah, that's true. Who're having conflict on the first day. But the only thing that needed to happen when you and I had conflict -

Jason (22:56):


Jordan (22:57):

We sit down and personally reconcile through that, and then we get back to work. That is a five minute fix, but it's so transparent and obvious. But things get, there's layers and layers of shields and privacy and partition walls and so forth where you don't see what's going on. And I might not know what's happening with your team, and you don't know what's happening with her team. And so conflict builds up, or somebody makes a decision that's a little bit in a gray space, and then it gets a little bit less gray until all of a sudden it's just completely unethical. But where's the checks and balances? Who's seeing that? Et cetera. So I just feel like there's a relational breakdown as organizations get bigger. So because there's not that same sense of accountability, or in our case, even friendship, there's not a lot of opportunity for these things to come to light before they get big and ugly, and then all of a sudden it's just too late.

Jason (24:04):

I've been listening to this audio book called Sapiens, and it's interesting. I mean, I think it’s probably not one of the best books that I've listened to or read recently, but they bring us some interesting points in this. And one of them is how human culture and society evolved. And one of the points that they bring up that I've heard before is the human capacity for structured relationship, if you will. And so obviously, we lived in very tribal kind of groups a long time ago, and those tribes eventually grew into cities and town cities, cultures that became more monolithic in nature. But what a lot of psychologists or sociologists have found is that the human capacity for relationship really doesn't extend beyond about a hundred people. 200 at most.

Jordan (24:58):

I mean, our generation feels that, don't we? Right. Right. Cause in our childhood, that's all there was, right? I mean, a hundred people, maybe.

Jason (25:06):

Because the network -

Jordan (25:06):

That you knew the names of or whatever your network was, the people geographically located with you, they rode the school bus with you, right? Yeah. They were in your class, maybe even not the entire school, but just the folks that were in your classes. Maybe you belonged to some civic organization or place of worship or something like that. And so there was a group there, and then that's it.

Jason (25:27):


Jordan (25:28):

That's it. And you weren't responsible for knowing, and a couple of neighbors, and you weren't responsible for knowing anybody else. You didn't think -

Jason (25:34):

Well and you really couldn't, right? Yeah, because we didn't have internet.

Jordan (25:39):

We couldn't, anyway. Yeah.

Jason (25:40):

There wasn't the internet, you weren't connected with people across the world. There wasn't even a way to know what was going on across the world or even across the town without really putting in some effort to find out. And so our networks have sort of become looser and less connected, and there's all sorts of implications for that. But I think what's interesting is if our capacity to maintain kind of a healthy structure of communal relationships is kind of capped at, say, a hundred or at most 200 people, individuals, what do you do when you've got a company that's a thousand people? Or 2000?

Jordan (26:22):

I'll tell you what you do. You redefine relationship. So let's say you go from a hundred to a thousand, then you have to give one 10th of the empathy, one 10th of the time, one 10th of the care.

Jason (26:34):

Well, that's what happens, right?

Jordan (26:34):

That's what happens, right? Because you don't have a choice. You don't know what I mean, I remember interviewing back when this podcast was called BragWorthy Culture. I interviewed, I believe her name was Mariah Steiner. I'll have to go back and check on that. But she was a sociologist, and I brought up a theory that I'd had for a long time around empathy, and the fact that I actually stopped watching the news because I feel like there's so much that I need to be empathetic for in my family, my extended family, my friend group, and now the company that I didn't have empathy left to hear about a shooting or a fire or someone that drowned or whatever was happening on the news. I'm like, I can't even feel it.

Jason (27:20):

Well, we're literally not conditioned to be able to,

Jordan (27:23):

Right? So it was interesting because she called that empathy fatigue. She said, that's what you're experiencing. You're experiencing empathy fatigue. And she didn't describe it in this hundred person way, but she described it as you have a capacity for empathy for others. And it, there's just a limit to it. Yeah. It's not an unlimited resource. And the minute you get to a place where that fatigue gets bad enough, you just stop feeling it all together, even for the people that you ought to be feeling it. Right? Because you're just tired. And I was like, that is so fascinating. And you feel that in a big organization where, I was just talking about this today with somebody that in a small group, there's 15 people in an organization, somebody quits. We didn't actually have anybody quit until we were 40 some people, which was kind of cool. But at 15 people, somebody quits, it's, I mean, the next day is a funeral. It's just like -

Jason (28:23):

They're gone.

Jordan (28:23):

What? Remember -

Jason (28:24):

What are we going to do?

Jordan (28:25):

Remember Jill? Sorry. We actually have somebody named Jill that still works here. I should use a different name. But remember Jack? We have a Jack too. Oh, we have some stereotypical names. But you, you're reminiscing about it. You're telling stories. But in a thousand person organization, somebody leaves or gets fired or whatever.

Jason (28:50):

10 Jacks, 10 Jills.

Jordan (28:51):

There might be five seconds around the water cooler proverbially that you would be like, oh, yeah, I worked on a project with that guy. Well, he was cool. Well, anyway, how was your weekend? And then there's no mention to this person for the rest of the company's existence, and it's something that's natural about that. Sad, but natural given the capacity that we lack.

Jason (29:17):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think maybe what kind of tying it back into this idea of companies get it or they don't. Yeah. I think for you and I, it's often easy to think of it in our context, which is a smaller company. And so the span of control, I guess you'd say is a little bit easier in some respects. Although there's lots of stuff that's difficult still, even with the company, the size that ours is. And I'd say as the company gets bigger, that's where your managers become so much more important. And I think that's true for us. And so I'm not suggesting that the folks that manage people outside of us aren't equally as important. But when you blow that out to a company that's 10,000 employees, if a company with 10,000 employees talks about culture, it's kind of like, what are you talking about? You don't have a culture. Right? You have cultures. Many cultures.

Jordan (30:10):

Yeah. Hundreds probably, right?

Jason (30:11):

Yeah. Probably limited to -

Jordan (30:13):

As many as you have managers.

Jason (30:14):

A hundred employees at most in these kind of pockets or teams or the man. Right? Exactly. And so I think it becomes all the more important than ask the question, how do we transmit the things that are most important into these cultures that are going to look different? Because it, it's not like you want to -

Jordan (30:32):

Now you’re talking about what HR’s job should be.

Jason (30:34):

Yes. Right.

Jordan (30:35):

Yeah. And there's tons more to talk about here. But yeah, it was a fantastic segue on your part that which we really have just in time to wrap up just in time to wrap up the episode, but we'll continue next week with this. But yeah, that's the whole point right there. There are in large organization that HR function is all the more important because it's so much more complicated to try to figure out how to take values and distill them amongst a dozen or a hundred or 500 cultures, which are probably as many managers as you have, is another culture.

Jason (31:11):

And that's a different job, a different, than what it's been conventionally.

Jordan (31:14):

It’s totally different job. That job that could be completely time consuming and could dominate 80, 90% of teams, I'm not a person, obviously at that level. You have a team, but that probably should take up the majority of the time for HR people and those defensive tasks, paying the bills, getting people onboarded, offboarded, et cetera, et cetera. Those things should be much more technology oriented, much more using tools and software to accomplish, right? Because tools and software don't have the EQ to solve the problem that we're talking about. Right? Right. So yeah, I'm excited to talk about the rest of this, which I'm realizing now is going to be about six episodes.

Jason (31:56):

Probably. So yeah. It's the rest of the season.

Jordan (31:59):

The rest of the season. But that's okay. This is our bread and butter. So Jason, tell us about, obviously they know about next week, because we're going to talk about this, we're going to keep going with this idea of, first, what the HR role has evolved into. We're going to talk about some of the greatest challenges, the HR folks, the respondents, the 500 respondents plus that we have, say that they face, some of which was like, duh. And some of which was like, oh, really? I, okay. Was even surprising to us. And we're steeped in this full-time and have been for nearly five years. So excited to talk about this more. But Jason, team me up for my word of the day, if you even have one. I do. You do. Of course you do. Word of the day for the next episode is You'll like this one: yips.




Yes. Maybe instead of saying yips, I'll just struggle to speak for a while. Yeah. I'll just represent yips and maybe the host, and you'll just be Yes, there. Yes. I'll be the fool. I'll be the, the jester. Well, great, great. Yips should not be too difficult if I remember to do it. Again, thank you for listening. Appreciate you guys listening. Would love your feedback. Would love any suggestions that you have on topics after we go through this 27 episode series on this survey that we just did. And we'll need something to talk about on the back end of that. But again, thanks for listening. We'll catch you next week on How People Work.

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